Hi all

Creating a new thread as to not derail the duplicate films thread.

WolfXCIX wrote:

sound.and.vision, I can see why you think that those shouldn't be valid entries. But here's what I think about it: there could possibly be more versions of those releases, but we don't know that for sure. Who knows? There very well could be a laserdisc version of those videos for all we know. That's why I think the film pages should stay.

However, I do agree that there should be the separate pages for the music videos, as they aren't specific to any one compilation or release. They appear on many from my understanding. I believe that all of those should be attached to those releases, and I don't see anything in the wiki saying it shouldn't be like that either.

Also a side note concerning your submission notes. It says that you were adding the music videos to fit filmogs guidelines, as per the music genre release. Since when? Where does it say that? I certainly don't see that in the wiki, and I would have no idea where to look for it in the forums either if it even exists. A citiation would help.

Thank you.

With the news of a new genre "Music" being made available I began the process of removing incorrect entries listed under "Musical" (still in progress, it's a little mind-numbing).

While progressing through these film entries I found that fellow contributor, _WolfXCIX, had created film entries for some Weird Al Yankovich music video compilation releases:

Release: https://www.filmo.gs/release/303723-bad-hair-day-the-videos
Film: https://www.filmo.gs/film/303716-bad-hair-day-the-videos

Release: https://www.filmo.gs/release/271262-alapalooza-the-videos
Film: https://www.filmo.gs/film/271260-alapalooza-the-videos

Although I wasn't directly invovled with the introduction of music video releases to the database I agreed with the method that fellow contributor remco2502 had adopted and from that point on subsequent music video releases have followed this format.

The format can be seen in this example: https://www.filmo.gs/release/179315-40-jaar-top-40-1999-2000

Each music video is considered to be its own item of film, thus a film entry for each music video is created and linked to the release. There is no overarching "container" film that is linked as it was not felt there was a requirement for this because the music videos are not "re-cut", mixed or edited to qualify for that behaviour.

So with this is mind I began the process of creating individual film entries for the Weird Al releases and then linking them up. I did however remove the link to the old film entries as they are not really "films" and also marked them for deletion in the duplicate film thread.

I (errenously) thought the method for adding Music Video releases was covered in the current documentation but no such guidance exists, it appears its currently left to chance.

For example there is no mentiond/guidance in either of these guides:
https://www.filmo.gs/wiki/how-to-create-the-perfect-film-release-submission-on-filmogs
https://www.filmo.gs/wiki/help-add-release

WolfXCIX makes a point of how to gather similar music video releases together. We do this for TV series (as people are more likely to search for The Simpsons than a specific episode), so should we do it as well for compilations? If so how would we manage it? Is there a better way to group these together? (Maybe a collection/series field, which is already being discussed in another thread?)

What does everyone else think?

Thanks for making the thread.

The way I think this applies to my situation is similar to that of TV series box sets. I do think it's a good idea to have all the episodes linked. But how I feel it's remedided is how theres a main "TV SHOW" page for these releases to be linked to.

With music videos however, I would still think that there could be a film page for them. There could be mutliple versions of those releases. Case and Point: Metallica's Cliff 'Em All Home Video. There is a DVD, laserdisc and VHS for this release. Which I believe more than anything grants it it's own film page. It's how it's done on discogs, so I would think using this existing frame work it'd make sense.

From wiki

"Film is the abstract description of the visual work. This includes data like the title, the actors, director and so on. Think of Film as a master, unifying version under which each physical release is categorized"

FILM page should never be used as a master release page (or whatever it is called in discogs)

A couple examples of INCORRECT USAGE OF FILM PAGE:

https://www.filmo.gs/film/259700-beastie-boys-solid-gold-hits
https://www.filmo.gs/film/190998-beastie-boys-the-kill-to-pay-the-bill

Both are collections of videos, NOT a unique films.

DELETE!!!!

In other words, film page does not describe a physical home video release. Physical home video releases that contain the film are linked to that page.

We do this for TV series (as people are more likely to search for The Simpsons than a specific episode), so should we do it as well for compilations?

This is done poorly for TV series.

Here is how I think TV series should be handled:

https://www.filmo.gs/film/51849-adventure-time

Instead of the EXTERNAL LINKS - have EPISODE LINKS (internal links to filmogs episode pages like this one...)

https://www.filmo.gs/film/51859-my-two-favorite-people

When entering link to EPISODE the user would list the SEASON #, EPISODE # in the free text field.

<hr/>

Side note: Should music videos include the artist name in the title? And if so, should it be formatted ARTIST - TITLE or ARTIST: TITLE? If artist must be included, I vote for ARTIST - TITLE

I do agree with what you've said about the TV Series and Episode Links, but I still don't agree with how both sound.and.vision and you want to handle those music video releases. There could be multiple versions of that release, and you don't know it. Although there are separate works of films on these releases, it doesn't mean that there aren't multiple versions of it out there.

Like I've stated before as an example, Cliff 'Em All is a great example of how there are many different versions of the same release. Sure, the same live footage could have been used on another compilation released by Metallica, but that shouldn't negate not making a film page for it. That would deny a big fan of the group the right to know if there's any other versions of that available or not. Without the film page, they would most likely have to discover it by chance, which is not ideal.

Also EK_, you don't have to type in caps with exclamation points to emphasize your point. It's not like we're glazing over what you're saying.

EK wrote_:

We do this for TV series (as people are more likely to search for The Simpsons than a specific episode), so should we do it as well for compilations?

This is done poorly for TV series.

Here is how I think TV series should be handled:

https://www.filmo.gs/film/51849-adventure-time

Instead of the EXTERNAL LINKS - have EPISODE LINKS (internal links to filmogs episode pages like this one...)

https://www.filmo.gs/film/51859-my-two-favorite-people

When entering link to EPISODE the user would list the SEASON #, EPISODE # in the free text field.

<hr/>

Side note: Should music videos include the artist name in the title? And if so, should it be formatted ARTIST - TITLE or ARTIST: TITLE? If artist must be included, I vote for ARTIST - TITLE

yes good idea most tv episodes are not even made users just make the series and not the episodes i'll link the episodes i just made to the tv series page.

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